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I remember when I used to play modpacks back in the day and they would require (max) 4gb.
Recently downloaded a modpack and people were recommending 6,7 and 8gb. Absolutely insane.
Why does it take up so much ram now a days?
In version 1.8 vanilla Minecraft switched to loading all models into memory at the beginning. It's good for performance while playing but a modded pack typically has a heck of a lot more models to load than vanilla does.
Oh, I didn’t know that. I thought it was that mods just aren’t as optimized as before. Is there a mod to change it to the old way? I have much more cpu/gpu to spare than ram. (i7 4790 GTX 1070 8GB ram) I find anything more than discord+a modern pack open brings my ram all the way up and causes my whole system to freeze every few seconds or completely.
Not that I know of, might be worth doubling your ram if you have a spare slot and some funds. With those specs it's bottlenecking other modern games too, though perhaps not as noticeably.
No extra slots, I have the extra ram to use if I had the slots. I need to buy a set of 16
It doesnt matter, I have a 6600k, 10gb allocated ram and the modpacks installed on an nvme ssd, still takes a few minutes to load
A few? It takes 20-30 for me if the packs big enough. Also, its less for too long loading and more for too much ram required that I would want such a mod.
Half an hour?! Do you have an SSD?
He's hitting his RAM limit and it's having to fall back to virtual ram, very slow, even on SSD.
Samsung 860 500gb ssd for Minecraft
How many mods do these packs have? I've made 2 different packs that have around 180 jar files in the mod folder for both 1.7.10 and 1.12.2 and it doesn't take more then 5 minutes to load either packs. With what I used for jvm arguments I'm able to get away with using 6gb of ram so I can have both packs running at the same time with little issue.
7600k @4.8GHz 24gb ram @2300mhz (2 8gb and 2 4gb) 500gb Samsung 970 evo NVMe SSD Zotac 1050 ti.
It is not possible to make a mod to change it back the old way. The changes are fundamental to how Minecraft works. That's just how it is. But note that your high loading times are probably caused by something else. It shouldn't take that long. Sevtech only takes a minute or two on my laptop
Modpacks are much larger than they were 'back in the day'. Depending on when you're thinking of, of course. Back in 1.4.7 a large modpack would be like 50-60 mods at most. Nowadays it's not uncommon to see 200+.
Atm3 and I think project ozone3 are both pushing 300 mods
Yeah I couldn't remember if PO3 was closer to 200 or 300, in my mind it was 280ish?
And last time I said this someone pointed out that a lot of those are small tweaks mods that change like one thing. But for every 3 of those small tweaks mods there definitely is a large tech or magic mod with tons of stuff. Plus all of the older tech and magic mods that have been around forever and have even more stuff than they did 4-6 versions of minecraft ago. Its a lot of stuff.
PO3 is 280ish, correct.
Because Java's garbage collector is... Garbage.
Java's garbage collectors are amazing. If you were to come up with a list of the 7 wonders of the software engineering world the JVM would be on the list largely for the garbage collectors.
Unfortunately, they weren't exactly designed for 3D games, and Minecraft skips some optimizations that you'd normally do in a game because the garbage collectors let it get away with allocating memory so frequently. Interestingly, that lack of optimization may be one of the things that makes Minecraft mods work so well.
that lack of optimization may be one of the things that makes Minecraft mods work so well.
You mean being written in Java as opposed to C++?
Primarily I'm talking about being written with lots of allocations in an extensible data structure rather than just as a bunch of flat arrays and minimal allocations FORTRAN style. You could conceptually go 10 times faster with 1/10th the RAM that way no problem.
But yes, using a language with high quality GC and some introspection ability is important too. It's not a coincidence that
Even multi threading it and using the other cool one with certain flags I'm pretty sure the game just uses that much. The way mods are is not very efficiently handled either.
2.9 GB RAM allocated
ikr, i just about get away with 9-10GB on a reasonably sized 1.12.2 pack
How?I managed to get away with 4GB on E2:ES(granted I had to install some performance mods).How do you use 9 Gb?
Which mods do you use? I’m playing on a potato
Someone should curate the most efficient mods and release them as Potatocraft. When they inevitably released a hard mode mod they could call it Potatocraft: Deep Fried.
only thing i can think of is maybe BoP eating a lot but other than that i have no clue. nothing out of the ordinary installed, no obscenely large modlist, i just started the game and couldn't move with less than 9GB because of garbage collection skipping. i've always found 1.12 to be like that though, the same pack i could have played in 1.10 with less than 5-6GB now takes me beyond 8 in 1.12. right now as i type this my ingame memory usage is peaking above 9GB, though strangely my task manager is showing no more than 4.5GB for that process, i just can't put the Xmx slider any higher haha
I ran atm3 on 3.5, there's something weird going on there, man.
AMD gfx card? I have to allocate obscene amounts of ram to prevent skipping unless I disable animated textures in FoamFix. Then I can get away with 3-4GB just fine. No clue why foamfix, animated textures and amd gfx cause so much stuttering.
I doubt that. I run e2e on ryzen integrated graphics with 6g allocated and it runs like butter.
Disabling texture animation in foam is a huge performance boost for everyone.
Using g1gc with associated arguments is recommended :)
nvidia, and i'll try that, thanks
How much RAM does your machine have? If you allocate more RAM than you have Windows will use virtual RAM which will slow your machine down.
32GB, i'd never give it more than i have
edit: it's a workstation pc with a gaming card, in case you're curious why the huge amount of ram haha
I play enigmatica 2 with 8GB with G1GC, anything less and I get lots of lag quickly. I've never understood how people can play with 2-4GB, it's never worked for me.
FYI... Java's performance suffers from over allocation of RAM almost as much as it does under allocation.
This may have been true 8-10 years ago, but not so much any more. With modern garbage collection combined with threaded garbage collection there is almost no such thing as 'too much memory' for java any more. At Least not in the sense that any minecraft user will likely hit.
As a test I allocated 64GB of ram to one of my servers a while back, with -XX:+UseG1GC and -XX:ParallelGCThreads=12 (this was on an actual server with 136GB ram and 12 CPU cores).
Garbage collection was taking an average of 30ms to complete with only 12GB ram allocated, with 64GB ram that jumped up to an average of 35ms. Still well under the 50ms required to have an impact on TPS.
Now, this test was a little off because I could not get minecraft to actually USE more than about 18GB of ram in the pack/world i tested with, however the same should be true for anyone else concerned about 'over allocating' memory.
Long story short, make sure you use the correct java arguments, throw as much memory as you can spare at minecraft and forget about it. The only thing I have ever seen negatively impact performance with minecraft and memory when configured properly is having too little RAM and making GC work overtime to clear enough memory to load new things in.
What about in the common 4 thread systems?
If you are running a dual core system with hyperthreading then it is time to look to upgrade because that pc is probably over 10 years old.
If by 4 threads you mean you have a cpu with 4 cores, then even without hyperthreading you should be fine to allocate 2-4 threads of garbage collection (depending on if you have hyperthreading) and not have an issue.
To be totally honest any cpu less than 6 years old that had a price tag of $100 or more at launch should be capable. That said, if you have a Dual core system with more than 16GB of ram then I would be very surprised.
Sorry but you're flat out wrong. Not saying you're lying or your test was invalid but you're assuming your test is the end all be all of situations. There's boat loads of evidence out there that modded Minecraft specifically suffers greatly when memory is over-allocated on some systems. It's not a flaw in Java as a whole, as it's fine on some systems, like your server, but a flaw in the way Java behaves in some environments. You can't just discount the hundreds of people that have experienced it first hand, like myself on my last system, because it doesn't happen to you.
I can say with certainty that those people, like yourself either had very very weak processors or did not suitably tweak the java arguments properly (or both).
For someone very experienced in Java, I cannot state enough how wrong this is.
You wont have problems giving Java 2-4GB too much of ram
You're literally the only Java dev I've ever heard say that. Not that it might not be true but you're the only one and I've talked with 10's.
it's not over-allocation, i know because i've played a similar pack on the same MC version on a pc with 16GB instead of this one's 32GB, it seriously struggled with anything less than 6GB, so when i started out with 8GB on this run to be safe it kept capping and skipping. i gave it more and it's running absolutely fine, just taking a lot of ram
Yeah, I hear this talk about "too much RAM" a lot. I've allocated up to 16GB on PO3 never experienced any issues. (I also experienced no benefit beyond allocating 8GB).
you allocated 16GB?? i assume you entered an argument in manually for that since the slider in twitch only goes up to 12GB.
but yeah it does seem a bit confusing what it's actually doing, like when i gave it 10GB the game ran smoothly but was using all of what i gave it, now that i've only given it 6GB the game is still running just as well only now it's gone down to only using 3GB
I use multimc for my single player worlds and write a bash script for my server.
The Twitch app actually put limits on their slider? One more reason to never use it.
How do you make a slider without limit?
Left for negative infinity, right for positive infinity. Ez.
Logarithmic scale centered on current value (so new value becomes center after it’s picked)
Ha! Good point! I guess should say, "I can't believe they set the maximum amount that low."
I believe the rule is that Java will use to it's best extent all of what you give it. However the larger the memory pool the longer it takes to garbage collect and the longer it takes to find and use things in the pool. Might try 4GB and see what happens.
i tried 6GB after replying just to make sure and it's now happily at around 4-5GB in use. i was aware that over-allocation was bad, but i assumed that when people always just said too much is bad that it was that simple. what i was instead getting were these tricky performance 'sweetspots' where the game could seemingly run well again after passing through a rough area, not realising that it was a mess memory-wise
Here's how it works:
This is very interesting, if true. Can you elaborate? Is there any sort of guide for allocating RAM properly?
No it doesn't. Not on today's gaming pc's.
So sick of that being echoed.
How do you need 10GB? 6.8GB is enough for me, with only minimal performance boosting.
i insisted in other replies that i hadn't over-allocated, turns out i over-allocated... apparently when 6GB is too little for endgame, bumping it up just 2GB more can put you over a snowball threshold where it'll start consuming most of your pc until it's happy again
After you go too high you can get lag spikes from the amount of ram it has to dump every few seconds.
I endured much suffering before I found that out.
I had 9 allotted to the complete 1.7.10 pack and it just kept failing to work
I have 8gb for all the mods and its fine
You are honestly probably hurting yourself allocating that much. Even bigger packs like PO3 don't require anywhere near 9GB allocated and Minecraft doesn't behave well when you give it too much more memory than it needs. You get MUCH better performance by finding a value closer to what the pack actually needs.
I don't really remember what this pack is. If it's SevTech, then it never actually worked, we stuck on never even loading the world. But 3 GB was always almost enough for Agrarian Skies, and we sank months in that pack.
Edit: it is SevTech
How do these people even get away with this?
On my PC, 3 GB isn't enough even for a 1.7.10 pack
Can you still foul performance by assigning too much ram as well?
What’s the point of this post? That we have to wait a long time for the game to load?
It will load. Eventually. Trust me.
Mine occasionally crashes at the two day Mark, and I have to start over again.
aka loading screen simulator. PO3 has pong you can play while waiting for the pack to load.
Why? Just tab out and do something else.
I usually do, I didn't put it in there, load times are about 5 to 10 minutes depending on what else I'm doing at the same time. sometimes I play the AI is pretty bad and the ball is too slow at full screen
Yup, multiple times I've actually forgotten I was even loading minecraft since I tabbed out and it took so long to actually load
You could've been a seamless gif!
Which darkosto pack is this, btw?
Yeah, I found it in my Telegram archieves and just had to share it immediately. Sorry...
That is the weirdest thingy ever! It annoys me when I'm downloading so I put discord over it.
why is there a blue eyeball dancing and shaking a cup
Man, the load screens are so long that I literally loaded up atm3r and went to my nearest fast food place for a bite to eat and it was at part 6. Is the forge team still looking to mitigate these oppressive load times?
Mod loading is threaded in 1.13, but the word's still out on what that will imply for load times (there's just not enough 1.13 mods for a good test of the system yet)
It took me 5 minutes to realize this was just a looped video.
its almost as if this clip loops indefinitely for me
Oh god I watched this for way too long before I realized.
Anyone else here hoping the modding experience for Hytale would at least be more bearable than these garbage loading times?
I also hope that there will be similar (if not the same) mods to Minecraft.
More like you launch with default ram settings and have to relaunch after it loads
Ha mine doesn’t even load, it crashes at stage 1 xD
We were able to load, but we ultimately gave up when our server just noped out on us. Shame.
My two favorite games with mods are minecraft and KSP. Both are written in a language other than C++. Both games have many great mods and I choose to use many of them. But the end result is that they load mods slowly. I don’t know if it’s a language runtime thing or something else. Or maybe it’s a loader thing where it’s very hard to load an arbitrary list of mods that might need to work together quickly/in parallel? It’s just interesting to me that a Java and .net (unity) game make me launch it and go get a snack.
I’m sure there’s an example that breaks the rule I’m not trying to establish. What’s another heavily modded game that loads slow? City Skylines? Skyrim? I didn’t ever mod those heavily.
I can vouch for Skyrim being pretty speed on the loadup with 200 mods. Takes 50-60~ seconds to get ingame on an HDD running heavy texture mods, enbs, etc. I believe only 10-20 seconds are added to the load times from the vanilla game in my case.
Me and my friends make our own modpacks
Everybody does it in some way. Modpacks like SevTech, Agrarian Skies or Enigmatica are special because they implement their own progression systems and reinforce different mod interactions
I prefer the first game that was ever made, project ozone 3